Behind the Da Vinci Code: Christ the Mystic
Baigent, Lincoln and Leigh argued at great length that Christ didn’t see Himself as most Christians see Him today. This is their point of view.
Nowadays, most Christian orthodoxies translate the ‘ben Genazareth’ part of Jesus’ name as “of Nazareth,” thus making Him Jesus of Nazareth. And they have good reason to do so, for the Bible said that Christ spent his early childhood in Nazareth. Matthew, chapter 2, verses 21-23 states quite clearly:
As St. Philip explained in his Gospel (one of the Gnostic Gospels), the term Nazarene comes from the word ‘Nazara’ which means truth.* Likewise, the word ‘Gnostic’ comes from a Greek word meaning ‘to know’. Those inducted into this arcana believed that salvation came about through an aggressive search for spiritual knowledge, which until the time of Jesus had only been availible to the elite.
For the sake of mankind, Jesus thus embarked upon a three-year teaching binge that stressed critical thinking and active engagement with subject matter, at the same time mocking traditional values and conventional wisdom while constantly challenging his disciples with odd hypothetical situations. In effect, Jesus attempted to democratize what had previously been off limits to the common person. The very parables we know Him for originated in the esoterica of the Nazarenes. Jesus used these to expand the mind of His followers, asking them to suspend their common sense in order to gain uncommon knowledge.
BLL repeatedly point out tacit references to Christ’s Nazarene influence in the Bible. When Christ received word from a messenger that his friend Lazarus had fallen gravely ill, for example, He nonchalantly mentions that He’ll go back to visit buddy boy when He gets a chance.
Huh? Are we to understand that Thomas is advocating a mass suicide?
Hardly, according to BLL. Tom knew that Lazarus’ sickness and death were ritualistically symbolic, and wanted Jesus to bless him and the others in the same way. This ritual, the transformation from death to life, signifies the end of one understanding of the world, and the rebirth of a new, enlightened perspective. We see Jesus referring to this again when He advises Nicodemus that he too must be born again.
*It's clear that there are numerous other etymologies for this term
Nowadays, most Christian orthodoxies translate the ‘ben Genazareth’ part of Jesus’ name as “of Nazareth,” thus making Him Jesus of Nazareth. And they have good reason to do so, for the Bible said that Christ spent his early childhood in Nazareth. Matthew, chapter 2, verses 21-23 states quite clearly:
So he [Joseph] got up, took the child [Jesus] and his mother [Mary] and went to the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: ‘He will be called a Nazarene.’Sounds plausible. We know that there was indeed a city called Nazareth, and that it still exists today. Problem is, we have no archeological evidence that the town even existed until the Second Century A.D., some one hundred years after the Crucifixion. Noted archeologist, Father Bellarmino Bagatti (Franciscan Friary of Saint Saviour, Jerusalem) found that while the outskirts of town had been used for burial and agriculture during the Bronze Age and the early Iron Age, those settlements disappeared for some centuries before starting anew, sometime after the year 100 AD. Naturally, some religious scholars have attempted to disprove Fr. Bagatti by producing artifacts that were sent to Europe more recently, each bearing a date stamp indicating the item originated in the First Century, as far back as the year 50 AD. But as Bagatti himself explained:
...we are not certain that it [the earliest extant artifact reported to originate from Nazareth which dates to no later than 50AD—still well after the Crucifixion] was found in Nazareth, even though it came from Nazareth to Paris [in 1878]. At Nazareth there lived various vendors of antiquities who got ancient material from several places.BLL maintain that Jesus never set foot in Nazareth “So why does His name, in the original Hebrew, say he’s from Nazareth?” you ask. They would tell you that it doesn’t. Genazareth means ‘of the Nazarenes,' an offshoot of the Essenes that incorporated gnostic tenets. It’s another title that Christ had picked up somewhere along His life, most likely to indicate that He had mastered certain esoterica, or little-known information/philosophy.
As St. Philip explained in his Gospel (one of the Gnostic Gospels), the term Nazarene comes from the word ‘Nazara’ which means truth.* Likewise, the word ‘Gnostic’ comes from a Greek word meaning ‘to know’. Those inducted into this arcana believed that salvation came about through an aggressive search for spiritual knowledge, which until the time of Jesus had only been availible to the elite.
For the sake of mankind, Jesus thus embarked upon a three-year teaching binge that stressed critical thinking and active engagement with subject matter, at the same time mocking traditional values and conventional wisdom while constantly challenging his disciples with odd hypothetical situations. In effect, Jesus attempted to democratize what had previously been off limits to the common person. The very parables we know Him for originated in the esoterica of the Nazarenes. Jesus used these to expand the mind of His followers, asking them to suspend their common sense in order to gain uncommon knowledge.
BLL repeatedly point out tacit references to Christ’s Nazarene influence in the Bible. When Christ received word from a messenger that his friend Lazarus had fallen gravely ill, for example, He nonchalantly mentions that He’ll go back to visit buddy boy when He gets a chance.
When he heard this, Jesus said, ‘This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it.’ Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. Yet when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was two more days. (John, chapter 11, verses 4-6)St. Thomas gets a little indignant about all this. One might even get the impression that the doubting one is more than a tad bit jealous, asking Christ why the Magnificent Twelve can’t go back with Him so “that we may die with him” (John, chapter 11, verse 16).
Huh? Are we to understand that Thomas is advocating a mass suicide?
Hardly, according to BLL. Tom knew that Lazarus’ sickness and death were ritualistically symbolic, and wanted Jesus to bless him and the others in the same way. This ritual, the transformation from death to life, signifies the end of one understanding of the world, and the rebirth of a new, enlightened perspective. We see Jesus referring to this again when He advises Nicodemus that he too must be born again.
*It's clear that there are numerous other etymologies for this term
Labels: esoterica, Holy Grail



36 Comments:
At 8:19 PM,
the.red.mantissa said…
interesting post. particularly, this line got me thinking that indeed today's christians may see JC so very differently than he saw himself.
In effect, Jesus attempted to democratize what had previously been off limits to the common person.
when one speaks of the catholic church ... it still seems to me that much of the knowledge body remains largely out of reach of the average person.
regarding the story of the 'resurrection of lazarus' ... i find it tiresome the way the party line wants to use this story to further its own belief ~ and the literal story contained within the NT.
still, this story has mystified me somewhat. but ... perhaps translation muddies things when it comes to ancient texts. i have read somewhere that the word used to describe the sickly state of lazarus was astheneia, which means lacking strength. so ... it makes me think of illness from the point of disease ~ dis-ease. and so ... makes me wonder about all the mysticism we may be missing by listening to crudely literal interpretations of this story.
i have discovered rudolf steiner in all this ~ a german philospher interested in the science of spirituality.
something interesting, perhaps
ok. off to read. i always learn something when i come here. or get inspired to want to learn more.
either way, this has NOTHING to do with creating looping statements to look up array elements in JavaScript. and for that, i thank you.
;^)
At 8:40 PM,
X. Dell said…
Mantissa, I guess that stories of Lazarus' ressurection have different folkloric versions. One version that's constantly alluded to in HBHG but which I didn't mention here (for space reasons) is one originally (?) found in the Gospel according to Matthew, which the authors claimed St. Clement redacted in the 2nd Century. In the redacted version, Christ simply rolls open the tomb, and out walks Lazarus--implying that Lazarus wasn't physically dead at anytime during his illness, but rather preparing for a ritual which Jesus completes by asking him to come naked to His bed later that night.
Despite the obvious, the ritual had nothing to do with homosexuality, but rather with the notion of rebirth. After all, we're not born wearing designer labels. And in this sense, Jesus is giving Lazarus a new life, a rebirth. In other words, the ritual is to confirm that Lazarus has been born again.
One cannot help but see how that particular passage (if legitimate), as depicted here, refers to a mystic tradition not found in mainstream Judaism.
At 10:03 PM,
b o o said…
why are there no pics for these posts?
At 10:51 PM,
Anonymous said…
I've just started reading here and I was just reminded how some years ago when we were still into the "ministry" so to speak...well I picked up a book authored by (if I am not mistaken a woman named Barbara...geez'..I'm not so good in remembering last names...)
Anyway..I could be mistaken with the name but the title of the book was..."The Real Jesus" oooor..something that sounded really like that...so..
Well, I picked it off the shelf
( we have lunch after church then proceed to Powerbooks were you can read for free inside their coffee shop that goes by the name Java Man...Their onion soup is great....then buy the book if you want to...)
Thing is...as soon as I've scanned what it was all about I quickly put it back into its shelf...felt sort of sacrilegious to even read, touch or hold anything that went beyond what is accepted...
And here I am..reading the exact same things...only in much more fun ( funner...allow me to coin a word for once) way...
oops..sorry this is long....me' thinks I should have just said his to myself...
Hello to RED :>
guess who?
At 11:05 PM,
Anonymous said…
Uuuuuuum'....thinking..thiiiikning here...
wait a minute...you mean...like...Lazarus was never really "dead"..as in...no breath.....clinically dead....as in...he got all wrapped in a mummy looking way ( this is how it's often illustrated so when we talk of Lazarus a walking human in roles of white linen covered from head to foot - even the nose - comes to mind) and placed inside a crypt of a cave for some time without being dead...
I was thinking more of..I wonder if this story actually happened....Like I've read that the story about the adulterous woman caught in the act and Jesus dares the crowd to cast the first stone is somewhat questionable...Some claim it never happened....so I wonder if the Lazarus story could possibly go the same way...Then..I've never read anyone dispute that it did...
Maybe I should read back..
Guess who again..
At 11:07 PM,
Anonymous said…
in "rolls"...Not ROLES...grrrr...for not checing back!....
???...rolls or roles?..am' confused..english not my first language..
At 11:59 PM,
the.red.mantissa said…
yes ~ the idea of rebirth. that's the tiresome notion i had in mind ... and i can just hear the words now 'born again...' in my head. i fear that catch phrase, while no doubt quite mystically clever, has become overworn to my ears. but i understand the sentiment. still, i wonder if there's more behind this story ... and thoughts such as this lead to what our anon friend (yeah, i know who) has asked ~ did this happen at all? i am inclined to believe maybe it did not, b/c i don't believe the NT to be a factual historical record. and so ... if its not history, but only mystical, mythical tales, then ... possibly we humans have interpreted them too crudely?
just thinking out loud ... (doncha hate when i do that?)
i've never felt complete satisfied with the explanation ...
but you do make a good point ~ such mysticism differs radically from mainstream judaism.
At 3:31 AM,
X. Dell said…
Boo, some of the posts in this series have pics. Some of them will have videos too.
Lux, it's not my intention to force you or anyone else to indulge in sacrilige. People purport that the story you learned at Sunday school is true. Others simply report something else. Both positions require a leap of faith, for there is only so much we can know now.
The rolls of linen on Lazarus would be consistent with how the event is portrayed in the Gospel According to John. After all, Lazarus is dead and in the tomb.
These alternative Christians believe, however, that Lazarus really wasn't dead, that it was a ritual, one that Thomas and the other disciples understood as such as implied by his wish for he and the others to die too.
And for the record, your English beats the pants off of my Tagalog.
Mantissa, one of the things about Jesus is that during the first Century AD there were a whole lot of people writing about Him, and most of these scrolls didn't make the Bible's cut. While all of these writings could be fictional, or on a fictional subject (after all, there are tons of books about Star Trek and Harry Potter too), it at leasts gives one a bit more confidence that there is at least some empirical accuracy in them--e.g. no one doubts that Herrod existed, or Caesar, or that Rome occupied Judea at the time.
I think your question ("Have we interpreted them too crudely?") is really the key one, the one that many have hammered away at for a couple of millennia now.
BTW, I don't mind at all when one thinks out loud. I'm just happy that people think.
At 7:07 AM,
SJ said…
The King, the Mystic - methinks you are going to do what I told you in our chat - Jesus Christ, Superstar.
Resurrecting the dead is another similarity between various religions. Buddhism however completely nixes the idea. Let me know if you want the story and we can gather around the fire and I'll relate.
At 10:03 AM,
foam said…
i'd like to have the unedited director's cut of the bible...
basically i have nothing against the various translations of the bible. i have nothing against the stories that have been left out. perhaps because they've been left out i'm a heck of a lot more curious about them. i just have something against the folks who try to interpret the bible to suit their agenda. i'm not talking about your research. you lay out facts based on other research that you have found. and the fact is that research is out there based on archeological and historical research and findings. it's interesting how it is interpreted.
i tried to look for our robert graves book cause it often provides information on where translations of names have come from. my computer is slow as all get out today. it's a drag. i'm also still headachey, so not sure if anything makes sense.
these topics you've been looking into have interested me for a long time. i have off and on done my own research since i was in my late twenties. that includes the mother earth goddess stuff and all this stuff. this is right up this atheistic/agnostic gals (me) whatever...
time for more serious pain pills here i think.
At 10:07 AM,
foam said…
ps: all my little nudie doodles that i've been doing off and on over the computer these past 17 years or so are little goddess figures actually. i don't take them very seriosly. but that's why they don't have any arms or head.
At 1:14 PM,
Enemy of the Republic said…
I will comment on this--probably tomorrow as I won't have time today. I will print out this blog and read it.
At 1:17 PM,
Enemy of the Republic said…
Here's that link:
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/yehoshua.html
Mysticism fascinates me. I am beginning a study of Sufi mysticism for work. Again, I haven't read your post, but my 3 favorite Christian mystics are Hildergard, St. Antony and St. Francis, with an honoray mention to St. John of the Cross. More later. I love this!
At 1:42 PM,
SJ said…
I found this link
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
Seems like Islamic scholars have been debating the possibility of Jesus going to India via Afghanistan.
The speculation:
1. Jesus doesn't die. Moves east logical when you consider the West was ruled by the very Rome he was escaping from.
2. Leave his imprint and various traces in the future Islamic world.
3. Reaches Afghanistan. India meant the entire subcontinent back then not the current borders.
At 3:12 PM,
X. Dell said…
SJ, I wouldn't quite make Him to be a Hollywood superstar. That was done already by Mel Gibson.
Your link is interesting because the story of Christ and Mary in India apparently has a context within Islam. MAny Christians do not know that Christ is revered as a prophet in Islam, and this mini-book link you sent to me explains that in great detail. Thanks.
Enemy, the link you sent is interesting because it discusses the intermediate steps from the Latinization of the name Ieshua to Jesus. Good stuff. Thanks.
As far as mystic traditions within Christianity, there are a number of them, both Catholic and Protestant. One of these days, I'll probably post about living with the latter.
At 3:42 PM,
the.red.mantissa said…
i'm with foam. that's sort of why i take the NT with a grain of salt. i'd like the raw, uncut version, too, lol.
i'm always on the fence regarding the whole historical accuracy thing. perhaps not entirely fictional, but more like historical fiction. it muddies the waters when storytellers inject real historical figures and places into their somewhat fabricate story. about lazarus not really being dead ~ this i had tucked in the back of my mind. i had seen a documentary some time ago about people being buried alive and the myth of dracula, vampire, blah blah being connected to this. i.e. person is not really dead, but mistaken for dead and so gets buried ... then wakes up buried alive and somehow fights his/her way out. or in the case of lazarus ~ when the stone is rolled away he walks out. still ... the full meaning of this eludes me.
At 5:33 PM,
Mayden' s Voyage said…
The resurrection of Lazarus was the final miracle that sealed Jesus' fate...it was soon after this miracle He was betrayed, which is,of course, significant.
I think He had raised another person from the dead (a little girl?) earlier in his ministry, but now He was well known and those in high places (no pun intended) were paying close attention to what Jesus was doing.
I mean, can you imagine a candidate in the Independent Party these days raising someone from the dead? They would have nailed Ross Perot to a tree too! :)
I understand Mantiss's "tiresome" feeling at the term "re-born, or born again"...I too heard it many times as kid and adult and I think the real meaning behind it is lost in rhetoric of the Christian walk.
However- with that being said, a person who encounters the living spirit of God (and I think this form comes in many ways) is profoundly touched, and life is radically changed. They begin anew- they start over...re-born, not in the flesh, but in spirit.
I've seen it too many times to discount the experiences.
I feel sad though, in this day and age, that "rituals" outside of the ordinary (like birthday parties, and weddings)- are met with discomfort, or even straight out rejected. I wish I could create rituals to honor those I've lost (like tracing a heart on the moon when I see it and think of Baron)-
or draw the letter X on the seat next to me when I'm in the park having a picnic :) (in your honor of course! ;)
Actually- these days I care less about what people think- and I will start creating rituals- because they are for me, and me alone. And natrually- the same can be said about my faith, and what I believe- despite the evidence for it or against it.
My faith and my love- which are both spiritual- transend what can not be seen, into what can be felt and known. These things are mine to share, or give, or to hold back.
The thing I admire about Jesus was that He chose to give- knowing what it would cost Him. Yet, He also knew that death was not the end. I think He was right~
I should probably have written this in my journal and not here...
but since your post drew it out of me- I'll leave it :)
At 7:28 PM,
JohnB said…
I have often heard from some that the "gospels" were almost written as an afterthought to the writings of St Paul...I remember finding out that most of what is written in the gospels was not authored by who they were attributed to, but by others using the name of the apostle or disciple. These things disturbed me a great deal, myself growing up Catholic, attending catechism...the whole 9 yards, and never once did they fully explain the murkiness that exists here. Another thing they never explained (although knowing how I was as a little kid, I probably didn't listen too well--->see photo) was the fact that Greek and other languages of the time contained a great deal of synonyms rather than a separate word for each idea (as compared to modern English)...which meant unless the translator could be absolutely sure as to the context of the writer, there was really no way to convey the true meaning completely of what was intended...what do you think; do you think this is a fair synopsis some of the confusion: attitudes of the educators and linguistics?
At 7:33 PM,
X. Dell said…
Mantissa, the historical accuracy of the Bible, specifically the NT, is a question raised by BLL, but compared to other holy books, it causes fewer problems to the academic. When it does, such as in the case of Fr. Bagatti, most Christian sects can adapt. The faith I grew up in (Presbyterianism), for example, stresses that the Bible is always truth, but not necessarily a literal truth. Other sects have different opinions, of course.
Otherwise, like you and Foam, I would love to have the straight dope. Unfortunately history doesn't work that way. Everyone always tries to muddy the waters. In conspiracy research, even more so.
Mayden, thank you for the input on the experience. I have known many Christians, of course, and have grown up around them, and I would concur that the joy resulting from religious experience is quite real.
Rituals have very valid psychological and sociological reasons for being, in addition to the spiritual. I'm not sure which rituals you may be referring to, for I haven't seen widespread condemnation of them, at least within the mainstream (which seems to reinforce the validity of ritual, from my point of view). Popular television shows, movies and radio shows of recent years have championed a number of Christian rituals, from prayer to exorcism to impending rapture. True, some rituals with religious significance are discouraged or prohibited in public spaces, especially when that space is occupied by those holding different religious beliefs. But the ritual itself is never banned. Moreover, even if one were to ban a particular ritual (e.g. human sacrifice), that doesn't mean that people wouldn't carry that out secretly.
I think the rituals you describe would be a good idea, for you, for many different reasons and on many different levels. To stay connected to friends. I wouldn't mind thinking of a correspondent Cora ritual for myself--probably revolving around peanut butter cookies.
I'm glad you shared this with us. As for your journal, you can always cut and paste it in, can't you?
At 7:49 PM,
X. Dell said…
John, as far as the nature of what we have gotten to history I would add the nature of information then as compared to what it is today. Today, most people are literate. Two thousand years ago illiteracy was much higher. Thus, oral transmission became important to any story. But if you have ever played a decent game of telephone, you realize how difficult it is to keep any story intact from the beginning of the chain to the end of the chain, no matter how simple the narrative. Those writing after the fact would have to rely upon accounts that could be second and third hand, or even if first hand somewhat distorted (happens all the time when you tell your friends one thing, but subsequently they interpret what you said differently).
Were the technology of the 1890s available to Christ, He could have repeated his sermons and teachings in print. We would therefore know exactly where he stood on many philosophical, spiritual, and moral questions. If He did not write what we find in His book/magazine/newspaper, we would know that whoever wrote it had His consent and approval. We would have had photographs of Christ on his missions. We could have even had film of him performing miracles, and wax cylinders of the Sermon on the Mount, or the prayer at Gethsemene.
Were the technology of today available to Him back then, He could have also had an interactive ministry worldwide, with immediate coverage of His life and work.
To be honest, I'd find it difficult to believe that Eusebius, and those writing the Gospels, could have produced the NT without interpolating the information that they had. I don't think that really invalidates the Gospels per se, but it does take them out of the realm of absolute, unquestionable, unassailable historic truth.
At 8:39 PM,
Anonymous said…
I'm sorry. It was not my intention to make it appear that you are endorsing me or anyone else to commit sacrilege through reading your post. Goodness, no sir! I was just merely excitedy expounding on how coincidental it is that I would come across a much better rendition of an interesting book I glossed over with trepidation years and years ago.
In fact, if I had realized then what I have realized after uprooting myself from the very close knit "community of servers" I used to belong to..then I would have read the entire book with much thoughtfulness and relish.
"Leap of faith..leap of faith.."....I will roll this over and over my lips today...a personal mantra...
"..for we can only know so much..."...How true..and prettily breathed...I like that...
What I do NOT like though are these awesome freaking sharp rolls of thunder coursing through our skies...and must now close my computer before I get fried...
HAve a nice day.....someone sick is calling me...
LL
At 9:50 PM,
kate said…
Ok, this bit...
"Tom knew that Lazarus’ sickness and death were ritualistically symbolic, and wanted Jesus to bless him and the others in the same way. "
So do you think that they believed that Jesus would actually die (as in no breath... lol to Lux) or do you think that the fab 12 thought he would 'ritualistically' do it?
Faith:
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. In and of itself, the idea of faith is interesting!
At 11:12 PM,
Libby said…
x and all!~
this is all interesting...& i love reading everyone's opinions here! better than a book, where you only get one person's opinion!
At 4:01 AM,
the.red.mantissa said…
what john has mentioned is exactly why i really place little literal value in the NT. it seems to me we get someone's interpretation of the events ... depending upon whose and the liberties taken with translations, the final product differs vastly.it makes me wonder ... not only about what's there, in print ... but all the things that are not.
regarding lazarus, i just read st. augustine's interpretation somewhere online. i like comparison of the raising of the body with the renewal of the soul and his mention of degrees ... i.e. lazarus was 4 days' dead ... augustine compares this with a soul 'habituated in sin' ... interesting interpretation. and the shroud linens that seem to hinder lazarus as he walks out of his tomb, they represent the things man needs to shed in order for his soul to live.
here a link you might find interesting
At 4:16 AM,
the.red.mantissa said…
i am thinking now that this story, like the much of the NT seems like more of a lesson if we forget about the literal and think in a metaphorical, allegorical sense. much of the stories surrounding jesus and all of his parables, lessons, sermons seems simple, but deceptively so. i am wondering if we really know how to know him ... or believe in him ... or learn from him.
viewed in a purely allegorical ~ symbolic ~ metaphorical way ... the story of lazarus does, indeed, show us quite a uniquely mystical perspective.
At 8:12 AM,
Angie said…
Just to muddy the waters a little more for JohnB (BTW, love the pants in that pic!!)...From the research I've done, there are several theories about the Gospels in the NT being "edited" and in some cases, re-written prior to inclusion in the cannon. One is that Eusebius and others who "edited" the Bible were "orthodox" Christians...meaning that they believed that stories of the Gospels to be historical fact. Anything contained within that they considered "mystical" in nature was edited out or the story re-written to coincide with their beliefs. The second theory is that the Gospels were edited for inclusion in the Bible because the Bible was being written for a Roman audience. Anything that put the Roman overlords in a bad light was again edited out or re-written. Actually some believe this is the main factor for the differences between in the NT and the Gnostics or Nag Hammadi scrolls. The latter being written for an Egyptian audience and therefore there was no reason to edit the documents to make the Romans look good.
*sigh* When you start reading the information available on the subject it really makes you question exactly WHAT you should believe.
X, I didn't know you were also raised Presbyterian! I hope you didn't mind me adding a little more information on the subject.
At 10:23 AM,
Enemy of the Republic said…
I've been thinking about your post all night. Unfortunately, my comment will come later in the day. But I will start with this: who is the mystic really, Christ himself or the spirit that leads him? Mayden used the term "living God." I admit that phrase used to bother me until I thought precisely in the terms you are outlining: are we worshipping a dead or living God? The case of Lazurus has been picked over so much--we now can bring back the dead with CPR, electrodes, but anyone who has come close to death or had a deathlike experience knows that the person is never the same. I often wondered what happened to Lazurus after his resurrection; who did he become? And if it is untrue, was it written to qualify the resurrection of Christ? If Christ rose again, we worship the living; if he never survived, then we are no different from idol worshippers who venerate an image of a dead or imaginary god. To me, the quest of the mystic lies in the following:
1. A desire to seek the truth above all other things.
2. Walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit)
3. Assisting the body and the mind to prepare for the mystical journey-St. Francis and St. Antony fasted constantly; Antony lived in the desert, Francis worked closely with the sick and dressed inadequetely--it is believed he died of leprosy. The miracle with Francis is that he lived as long as he did, because he did next to nothing to keep himself whole.
4. In other faiths or simply people who want to have a spiritual experience, drugs are used the same way some use fasting, dancing, emotionalism--to reach an altered state. Paul of Dune took the spice to acheive prescience; Timothy Leary saw God a lot with his LSD trips. This alone makes some skeptical of mysticism.
5. The mystic who seeks God wants to experience him as no human has done so before. All religious mystics of merit (who actually contribute to the theology of the faith) have uncovered mysteries that cannot be appropriated through basic worship. It takes a toll on the body and the mind, but these people are not insane.
I will say more, but this is where I shall start. When you get right down to it, either you accept the idea of God or you don't. There is no third way. But even through accepting him, it doesn't mean belief, faith or approval of his actions.
And yes, I am a Christian--an odd one to be sure.
At 11:34 AM,
Behind Blue Eyes said…
Oh I'm so glad you wrote this. I love this topic. (commenting on previous post as well.) I have heard of all the speculations that you mention and honestly it makes the most sense to me.
Please don't think me a crackpot, but I've seen you mention Edgar Cayce before too. Edgar Cayce said in one of his trances that Mary, Jesus mother was a part of the Gnostic religion and that she was chosen to give birth to Jesus. Mary was impregnated in some sort of ceremony. Joseph was chosen as her spouse, he was Gnostic as well. Jesus was raised as a priest, that's why you hear nothing of him until he is 12. I've never understood the idea of a religion being based solely on ones ability to believe something that is difficult to believe, immaculate conception, raising from the dead etc... It is completely off the point of what Jesus was actually trying to teach as well.
At 1:32 PM,
the.red.mantissa said…
regarding the NT ~ i have read and researched enuf to know that the romans seem to have this reputation for erasing from historical records the items that cast them in an unflattering light ... so i place little stick in any of their 'interpretations.' the whole issue of what's apcryphal (sp?), etc ... this is a conspiracy topic in and of itself, i suppose.
"And if it is untrue, was it written to qualify the resurrection of Christ? If Christ rose again, we worship the living; if he never survived, then we are no different from idol worshippers who venerate an image of a dead or imaginary god."
that, in a nutshell, is what i struggle with.
regarding mysticism ~ i like what susan has written. our society tends to discount or disregard the mystical, in favour of the concrete and fundamental. still, i'm beginning to see jesus as quite a mystical figure, quite apart from the traditional figure that's been pressed into me since birth.
i wonder, too, now that susan has mentioned it ... what effect would the experience of lazarus have had on the remainder of his life? indeed, most of us know that deprivation/loss/death leave profound marks on us as persons.
At 3:14 PM,
Enemy of the Republic said…
RM: Just so you know, I'm having trouble getting into your blogs.
At 3:39 PM,
X. Dell said…
Lux, I would be kinda curious as to how your life changed in order for you to become more open to what you formerly regarded as heresey--not that you believe it, or are receptive to considering it, but rather that you can actually hear what it is. I know a lot of people who would stick their fingers in their ears and sing "Yankee Doodle" to drown out any such thoughts.
Yeah, I'm also a little anxious to be on the computer when a thunderbolt makes its presence outside my window.
Kate, considering the disciples' actions afte Christ's arrest, it would seem they're really deep into self-preservation. After all, even Peter denies his relationship with Jesus three times in order to save his own skin. That they saw death as symbolic is reasonable, unless they expected Christ to literally bring them back from the dead too.
Faith is a necessary principle, even more so in a logocentric culture such as ours. Sometimes faith means understanding that something exists, even if we have no way of explaining what it is, or can demonstrated it in controlled laboratory conditions.
Libby, I totally agree. This is much better than reading a book because it's interactive, first of all. Secondly, this happens to be one of those areas that most people around here have given considerable thought about, and have researched on their own. Consequently, everybody here is -re-opening this subject for me, with new readings, new online resources, etc., and I find this most exciting. I'm learning quite a bit here, myself.
Mantissa, I haven't had time to read this book yet and absorb its pages, but I will, probably in the near future. Whether or not its good research, it's evidence of a growing belief in the alternative Christian depiction of Christ.
As to believing literal interpretations of the Scriptures, this is something that I would regard as a matter of faith to some degree. Even if there are mistakes in the account, that doesn't necessarily disqualify the entire account, only that portion of it. It does, however, lower the confidence in the NT as a purely historical record.
St. Augustine's take, as you describe (I confess to not having read him) on the resurrection of Lazarus perhaps illustrates the intent of the ritual better than the alternative Christians could. It is perhaps the lesson that Christ meant to teach, as you pointed out in your third comment. The metaphoric, or allegorical truth of the passage doesn't strain human credulity nearly as much (as Enemy would point out, given the technology of the day).
I think your last point, however, might very well be the $64 issue. You write: "much of the stories surrounding jesus and all of his parables, lessons, sermons seems simple, but deceptively so. i am wondering if we really know how to know him ... or believe in him ... or learn from him."
This is the key. As you mentioned earlier, perhaps the mainstream interpretation of Christ is a bit "crude," but perhaps not totally unexpected. After all, it's easier to put Jesus on a pedestal and worship Him than trying to figure out just what the hell He was trying to tell us.
As for your comments about the mystical, see my response to Kate.
Enemy, I'm wondering if this series might be related to some of your previous examinations of faith (as you have chronicled on Cruel Virgin). Out of all of us, you might have been the one to have researched and thought about this topic the most. So we can certainly be patient with your answer.
As to what happened to Lazarus after his resurrection, BLL speculate that he might have called himself a variation of the name Lazarus (specifically, Elezar), and led the Jews against the Roman siege at Masada in 74 AD. They hypothesize that Mary of Bithinia was in fact the Magdalene, thus making Lazarus/Elezar the brother-in-law of Jesus, who according to this, was also at Masada. For evidence, the authors cite a number of documents (parchments) that were stolen from the Vatican during the mid 1960s, which ultimately wound up in the possession of an Australian journalist named Joyce (I can't remember his first name at the moment), one of which was written by someone sigining their name Ieshua ben Ja'acob ben Genazareth, and who describes himself as having been born in 6 B.C., and the brother-in-law of Elezar.
Naturally, that's not only wild speculation, but tennuous speculation at that. I've tried to delve into this further, but came up with dead ends. But that was nine years ago. I might find more about this nowadays because the Net has become a far more powerful research tool since.
The problem of a "living god" as opposed to a "dead god" I would suspect constitutes the most contentious (perhaps provocative, maybe even downright offensive) issue that most Christians would deal with when confronting this issue, precisely for the reason you cite: that it would make Christians little different from idol worshippers, or ancestor worshippers, or whatever. It's perhaps one of the reasons that both HBHG and The Da Vinci Code have spurred such an abreaction in some communities of faith.
The five points that you list as pertaining to the mystic run counter, somewhat, to what most people currently perceive as mystic--i.e. blind faith in superstition or paranormal phenomena. I really like the way you put this, for basically you're describing a journey, an exploration where one doesn't really know where they will wind up--a scary proposition, sure. Perhaps faith comes in as reassurance that the journey is worthwhile, and leads to someplace good. What it doesn't include, however is blind belief, but rather thoughtful consideration.
I'm not sure what to make of your final comment, unless you're a closet Cathar:-) (just kidding--really)
Angie<, BLL felt more inclined toward the second theory, namely the editing of the Bible to serve the political interests of Rome. For example, in the NT the Romans are hounded by the Jews to crucify Christ. Pontius Pilate distances himself from the decision, thus giving him (and by proxy the Romans) some type of spiritual ablution. At the same time, it's kinda humorous to think of a 'henpecked' Roman magistrate (or empire) that regularly deferred to his subjects (the conquered).
At the same time, I have also read about the first theory. Even BLL give that (and the third theory) some lip service in HBHG. What this makes clear is that a lot of people were writing about Christ. As Enemy mentioned in a previous comment page, the Aryanism dispute, and other examples illustrate that there were conflicting opinions about the nature and purpose of Christ. I would tend to read this as a conflict of ideology and interest. Thus, these could have also been a point of negotiation, with some editing done to lock in one camp, and more editing done to lock in an opposing camp.
Going back to that first theory, BLL also noted (with the Lazarus story and others) a tendency to redact those passages dealing with occult practices, yet at the same time cite specific passages (particularly in the Gospel according to John) that indicate that these traditions were, in fact, represented, just not emphasized, or their origins obscured. (How else could we interpret Thomas's request?)
In short, theories one and two do not seem mutually exclusive to me.
In shorter, yeah, I was a Presbyterian, too. Are you sure you're not me?
Behind Blue Eyes I could hardly think of you as a crackpot for giving Cayce an audience. The man's work has been extremely well documented, and we have his descendents, most notably his grand-daughter Gail Schwartzer, to flesh out gaps of his life, times, attitudes, and beliefs.
It's interesting that Cayce actually made this statement in a trance state, since the man was a very conservative Christian in his waking life. Yet, it is consistent with what he has said in other trance statements that I'm aware of. This would seem to concur with BLL and the alternate Christian's view of events.
With respect in believing in the otherwise unbelievable as a basis for faith, that's another interesting point that one could perhaps put on the table. And in terms of blind faith, even in the NT we have examples of Christ understanding the need to question faith, if not condone it--e.g. when he allows Thomas to touch his wounds after the Resurrection.
At 3:39 PM,
X. Dell said…
Enemy, really? Let's see how long that lasts.
At 3:46 PM,
Enemy of the Republic said…
The Romans razed Jerusalem to the ground and renamed it Aelia when Hadrian rebuilt it in the 2nd century as a city dedicated to the God, Jupiter. Is it possible that a similar fate happened to Nazaruth?
At 5:28 PM,
Anonymous said…
X-I'm very into Edgar Cayce. He was amazing. I suppose that you have been on the website?
Everytime that Cayce's readings revealed something that he felt uncomfortable with, he would reread the Bible trying to come to terms with it. He became very upset when his readings started speaking about reincarnation, then he finally found a passage in the Bible that made him comfortable with it. Have you heard that story?
Oh, and by the way, better a crackpot then a crackhead.
At 5:51 PM,
Enemy of the Republic said…
I've thought about mysticism a lot and I don't see it as blind faith, perhaps because blindness suggests a closed mind. I see it as tested faith, one that has been through purifying fires of doubt and struggle, yet still kept the belief. The mystics of consequence fought unbelief and worldliness in their lives before setting onto their path. Mysticism is tough stuff, not meant for the weak minded and those of blind faith are weak indeed, as they tend to crumble under the rigorous testing of life.
My last comment is pure Dostoevsky: In the Brothers Karamazov, Ivan, who is a socialist and known as a non-Christian, tells his brother Aloysha (the monk) that he accepts God, but not his world. He cannot understand a God who tolerates evil. Therefore he rejects his teachings. There is a fine line of rebellion here. Essentially he is saying: sure, there is a God, but what does he have to do with me and my way of living? He puts himself above God when he turns against the world God creates. That is why Aloysha tells him: That's rebellion.
Thinking on RM's remarks, and then I must go, JC, in my mind lived in two realms, much like the elves in LOTR: he communed with his Father via the Holy Spirit and he communicated with man in the flesh. This is why the duality of Christ is imperative to understand if one sees him as God. Without it, he was either God on earth or a prophet which is a man with spiritual gifts. I dig many prophets, but I cannot imagine worshipping or praying to them. That is the essential difference.
At 9:41 PM,
X. Dell said…
Enemy, according to Bagatti, no. Nazareth simply didn't exist during the time of Christ. He did say that there was a thriving settlement at that site centuries earlier. But nothing until 2nd Century.
So far, no one has really come up with good evidence to suggestan earlier founding date, although as a point of contention I'm sure some will try.
Interesting literary allusion to The Brothers Karamozov. And I think I'm getting a handle on how you incorporate the idea of duality into this issue. It's almost a motific reflection on a number of Christian beliefs currently.
Anonymous, I'd take crackpot over crackhead any day.
I've been to the site. In fact, I might have linked to it in a post on the sister site, 23rd Mandalation. I have heard the story of Cayce's spiritual reconciliation on Coast-to-Coast of all places.
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