For Paper Mountain’s Majesty: Rogues’ Gallery
The all-star panel allegedly formed by President Harry Truman and Secretary of Defense James Forrestal is an impressive one indeed. One need not be a ufologist, or even believe in the existence of extraterrestrial visitation to understand that this is exactly the panel a chief executive might convene in the case of first contact with beings from another planet. Each of these men was impressive in his own way, and well respected among his peers. They each held considerable authority in military, civilian or academic circles.
Here’s a list of the men in question, those cited as belonging to the secret panel known to lore as Majestic-12.
Dr. Lloyd Berkner (1905-1967)—An electrical engineer by training, and administrator by profession, Berkner headed Associated Universities, a group responsible for running the research content of Brookhaven Laboratories. As a naval officer during the 1920s, he helped design radar and navigational systems that would later be of use in the growing Army Air Corps. He later became the President of the Graduate Research Center of the Southwest, Acting Director of National Radio Astronomy Observatory, and the Chair of the National Academy of Sciences’ Space Science Board. In 1963, he generated a theory of how atmospheres develop in the middle planets of a star system.
Dr. Detlev Bronk (1897-1975)—Although credentialed as a biologist, Bronk’s interests encompassed a wide range of topics within the natural and medical sciences. He taught medical physics at the University of Pennsylvania from 1929-1949, while serving as the Director of the Institute of Neurology. He left UPenn to become President of the Johns Hopkins University in 1949, and President of the Rockefeller University in 1953. As a scientist, he helped to innovate approaches to biological research. As an academic administrator, he stood up to Senator Joseph McCarthy by refusing to fire Professor Owen Lattimore for suspected communist sympathies. He also advised Brookhaven National Laboratories and the Atomic Energy Commission.
Dr. Vannevar Bush (1890-1974)—Talk about a man ahead of his time, Bush became one of the world’s most foremost experts on the subject of computers during the 1920s. From World War I to at least the 1960s, he served as an official or quasi-official advisor on scientific matters. What you might call a scientific hardliner, he believed that technological superiority provided the key to US national security. He also served as the President of the Carnegie Institution for Science, and later sat on the board of such corporate titans as AT&T and Merck (pharmaceuticals).
His public statements would lead one to think that he had neither an interest in nor connection to UFO activities. In fact, he denied that he had any knowledge of UFOs or of any government investigation of them. But declassified documents from Canada’s Defence Research Board hint at his involvement in official ufological investigations from 1950-1951.
US Secretary of Defense James Forrestal (1892-1949)—The aforementioned Forrestal succeeded FDR friend Frank Knox as Secretary of the Navy in 1944. A sort of hands-on guy, James physically travelled to a number of hot spots during WWII (among them Iwo Jima in 1945) to get a better understanding of what he needed to do to bring the boys back alive. The War Department eventually became the Defense Department in 1947, with Forrestal serving as its first Secretary.
In addition to becoming the first Secretary of Defense, Forrestal might have also been the most controversial (Donald Rumsfeld notwithstanding). His opinion that partitioning Palestine might lead to anti-American sentiment on the part of oil-wielding Muslims, thus resulting in decades of Middle East instability, prompted scathing attacks from the likes of Drew Pearson and other pro-Israel factions within the US. Truman put up with the heat for a couple of years, but eventually sacked Forrestal (forced him to resign, actually) in the spring of 1949, only weeks before the former-Secretary's sudden death, which to this day is shrouded in mystery.
Gordon Gray, JD (1909-1982)—A North Carolinian whose immediate family headed RJ Reynolds for three generations (his grandfather, father and brother served as company CEO), Gray received his law degree from Yale and became involved with the legal issues surrounding national security concerns. During WWII, he rose through the ranks, starting out as a Private, and ending the conflict with the rank of Captain under the command of General Omar Bradley. President Truman appointed him Secretary of the Army in 1949, after he had served for two years as the Assistant Secretary. In 1951, he became the first Director of the Psychological Strategy Board, an intelligence organization that studied psychological operation (PSYOPS). President Dwight Eisenhower named him National Security Advisor in 1958.
Rear Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, USN (1897-1982) --Hillenkoetter (known as “Hilly” to friends), remains one of the most pivotal figures in US Intelligence. Ironically, he’s one of the least discussed. As the third US Director of Central Intelligence (succeeding Lt. General Hoyt Vandenberg and Rear Admiral Sidney Souers) he took over as head of the Central Intelligence Group (CIG) and helped to shepherd the transition between that bureau and the successor Central Intelligence Agency. Thus, he became the first DCI to serve as CIA director.
Hillenkoetter’s interest in UFOs is well documented, mostly by Hillenkoetter himself. He joined the Board of Directors of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) in 1957. Founded by physicist Thomas Townsend Brown, Major Donald Keyhoe (USMC) and Rear Admiral Delmar Fahrney (USN), NICAP’s goal was very similar to that of the current day Disclosure Project. Both organizations lobbied for the release of UFO evidence by the US government. As former DCI, Hillenkoetter would have known first hand whether such evidence existed or not. And he made quite clear that it did. In a 1960 speech covered by the New York Times, he said:
Jerome Hunsaker (1886-1984)—An early aviation expert who designed airships for the United States during WWI, Hunsaker taught aerodynamics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.* In 1918, he helped to create the US military aircraft program as a member of the Army Navy Technical Board. As an educator, he wrote a number of scholarly papers on the subject of aviation. In turn, later scholars have cited his work and written about him.
Dr. Donald Menzel (1901-1976)—An A-list academic teaching out of Ohio State University and Harvard, Menzel was a pioneer in the subjects of theoretical and radio astronomy. During WWII, he served in the US Navy as a cryptoanalyst. He concurrently consulted the US State Department on Latin American affairs during the 1960s, the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, and the Condon Committee, the University of Colorado based study on UFOs.
Menzel’s vocal denunciation of UFOs was legendary. In three seminal works—Flying Saucers, The World of Flying Saucers: A Scientific Examination of a Major Myth of the Space Age, and The UFO Enigma: The Definitive Explanation of the UFO Phenomenon—he savagely debunked the existence of UFOs, despite the fact that he himself had reported one in 1949.
Lt. General Robert Montague, USA (1899-1958)—After commanding the 83rd Artillery Division during WWII, Montague headed the Sandia Base in Albuquerque, NM. From 1946-1971, Sandia was the primary nuclear weapons installation in North America. Montague, a veteran and expert on nuclear weapons and missile guidance systems, spent his latter years overseeing the most cutting-edge technology that the United States military had to deploy.
Rear Admiral Sidney Souers, USN (1892-1973)—Assistant, and later Deputy Chief of the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) during WWII, Souers became the first Director of Central Intelligence when President Truman appointed him to the position in 1946. Adm. Souers, like Adm. Hillenkoetter, were both Navy men who played a critical role in the development of US Intelligence. A long-time advocate of UK plans to centralize US Intelligence, Souers helped Truman push through bureaucratic and territorial deadlocks in order to make the CIA a reality.
General Nathan Twining, USAAC/USAF/USN (1897-1982)—This West Point alumnus not only served in the Army and its nascent Army Air Force, but in the US Navy as well. A career soldier and commander, he orchestrated victorious air missions in the European theatre of WWII. After Germany’s surrender, Truman ordered him to serve in the Pacific in order to secure victory over Japan. On his watch, two bombers reduced the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to ashes and charred flesh. In 1953, he succeeded Hoyt Vandenberg as Air Force Chief of Staff.
Part of Twining’s involvement with UFOs is fairly well documented. As head of Air Materiel Command, he recommended the first official UFO study, Project SIGN. His precise actions during the Roswell incident of 1947 remain a subject of debate. Nevertheless, his now-famous letter (often referred to as the “Twining Memo”) written to Brig. General George Schulgen, then-Commanding General of the Army Air Force leaves little doubt that this was a topic that came up within the purview of his office.
General Hoyt Vandenberg, USAAC/USAF (1899-1955)—A graduate of the Army War College, and the nephew of a US Senator, Vandenberg served as Chief of Military Intelligence during WWII. He succeeded Rear Adm. Sidney Souers as DCI in 1946, and from then to 1947 served as Director of the Central Intelligence Group. In 1948, Truman appointed him Air Force Chief of Staff, in which capacity he served until succeeded by General Twining. A career insider, some of his papers are still classified.
Vandenberg’s name comes up a lot in histories of ufology, especially in his memos on the subject in addition to the oversight, along with Twining, of Projects SIGN and BLUE BOOK. In a 2000 interview conducted by ufologist Brian Parks, former Assistant Secretary of the Air Force Harold Stuart (1949-1951) said that he often worked closely with Vandenberg, and seemingly affirmed both Vandenberg’s interest on the subject and the existence of MJ-12. His exact words: “I was not on the MJ-!2 Project Advisory Board and only have a faint recollection of the group.”
_________________
* I’m uncertain about Hunsaker’s status at MIT. Some sources list him as a Lecturer, others as an Assistant Professor.
To read earlier posts in this series, click here.
Here’s a list of the men in question, those cited as belonging to the secret panel known to lore as Majestic-12.
Dr. Lloyd Berkner (1905-1967)—An electrical engineer by training, and administrator by profession, Berkner headed Associated Universities, a group responsible for running the research content of Brookhaven Laboratories. As a naval officer during the 1920s, he helped design radar and navigational systems that would later be of use in the growing Army Air Corps. He later became the President of the Graduate Research Center of the Southwest, Acting Director of National Radio Astronomy Observatory, and the Chair of the National Academy of Sciences’ Space Science Board. In 1963, he generated a theory of how atmospheres develop in the middle planets of a star system.
Dr. Detlev Bronk (1897-1975)—Although credentialed as a biologist, Bronk’s interests encompassed a wide range of topics within the natural and medical sciences. He taught medical physics at the University of Pennsylvania from 1929-1949, while serving as the Director of the Institute of Neurology. He left UPenn to become President of the Johns Hopkins University in 1949, and President of the Rockefeller University in 1953. As a scientist, he helped to innovate approaches to biological research. As an academic administrator, he stood up to Senator Joseph McCarthy by refusing to fire Professor Owen Lattimore for suspected communist sympathies. He also advised Brookhaven National Laboratories and the Atomic Energy Commission.
Dr. Vannevar Bush (1890-1974)—Talk about a man ahead of his time, Bush became one of the world’s most foremost experts on the subject of computers during the 1920s. From World War I to at least the 1960s, he served as an official or quasi-official advisor on scientific matters. What you might call a scientific hardliner, he believed that technological superiority provided the key to US national security. He also served as the President of the Carnegie Institution for Science, and later sat on the board of such corporate titans as AT&T and Merck (pharmaceuticals).His public statements would lead one to think that he had neither an interest in nor connection to UFO activities. In fact, he denied that he had any knowledge of UFOs or of any government investigation of them. But declassified documents from Canada’s Defence Research Board hint at his involvement in official ufological investigations from 1950-1951.
US Secretary of Defense James Forrestal (1892-1949)—The aforementioned Forrestal succeeded FDR friend Frank Knox as Secretary of the Navy in 1944. A sort of hands-on guy, James physically travelled to a number of hot spots during WWII (among them Iwo Jima in 1945) to get a better understanding of what he needed to do to bring the boys back alive. The War Department eventually became the Defense Department in 1947, with Forrestal serving as its first Secretary.In addition to becoming the first Secretary of Defense, Forrestal might have also been the most controversial (Donald Rumsfeld notwithstanding). His opinion that partitioning Palestine might lead to anti-American sentiment on the part of oil-wielding Muslims, thus resulting in decades of Middle East instability, prompted scathing attacks from the likes of Drew Pearson and other pro-Israel factions within the US. Truman put up with the heat for a couple of years, but eventually sacked Forrestal (forced him to resign, actually) in the spring of 1949, only weeks before the former-Secretary's sudden death, which to this day is shrouded in mystery.
Gordon Gray, JD (1909-1982)—A North Carolinian whose immediate family headed RJ Reynolds for three generations (his grandfather, father and brother served as company CEO), Gray received his law degree from Yale and became involved with the legal issues surrounding national security concerns. During WWII, he rose through the ranks, starting out as a Private, and ending the conflict with the rank of Captain under the command of General Omar Bradley. President Truman appointed him Secretary of the Army in 1949, after he had served for two years as the Assistant Secretary. In 1951, he became the first Director of the Psychological Strategy Board, an intelligence organization that studied psychological operation (PSYOPS). President Dwight Eisenhower named him National Security Advisor in 1958.
Rear Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, USN (1897-1982) --Hillenkoetter (known as “Hilly” to friends), remains one of the most pivotal figures in US Intelligence. Ironically, he’s one of the least discussed. As the third US Director of Central Intelligence (succeeding Lt. General Hoyt Vandenberg and Rear Admiral Sidney Souers) he took over as head of the Central Intelligence Group (CIG) and helped to shepherd the transition between that bureau and the successor Central Intelligence Agency. Thus, he became the first DCI to serve as CIA director.Hillenkoetter’s interest in UFOs is well documented, mostly by Hillenkoetter himself. He joined the Board of Directors of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) in 1957. Founded by physicist Thomas Townsend Brown, Major Donald Keyhoe (USMC) and Rear Admiral Delmar Fahrney (USN), NICAP’s goal was very similar to that of the current day Disclosure Project. Both organizations lobbied for the release of UFO evidence by the US government. As former DCI, Hillenkoetter would have known first hand whether such evidence existed or not. And he made quite clear that it did. In a 1960 speech covered by the New York Times, he said:
It is time for the truth to be brought out in open Congressional hearings….behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFO’s.
But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense….to hide the facts, the Air Force has silenced its personnel.
Jerome Hunsaker (1886-1984)—An early aviation expert who designed airships for the United States during WWI, Hunsaker taught aerodynamics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.* In 1918, he helped to create the US military aircraft program as a member of the Army Navy Technical Board. As an educator, he wrote a number of scholarly papers on the subject of aviation. In turn, later scholars have cited his work and written about him.
Dr. Donald Menzel (1901-1976)—An A-list academic teaching out of Ohio State University and Harvard, Menzel was a pioneer in the subjects of theoretical and radio astronomy. During WWII, he served in the US Navy as a cryptoanalyst. He concurrently consulted the US State Department on Latin American affairs during the 1960s, the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, and the Condon Committee, the University of Colorado based study on UFOs.Menzel’s vocal denunciation of UFOs was legendary. In three seminal works—Flying Saucers, The World of Flying Saucers: A Scientific Examination of a Major Myth of the Space Age, and The UFO Enigma: The Definitive Explanation of the UFO Phenomenon—he savagely debunked the existence of UFOs, despite the fact that he himself had reported one in 1949.
Lt. General Robert Montague, USA (1899-1958)—After commanding the 83rd Artillery Division during WWII, Montague headed the Sandia Base in Albuquerque, NM. From 1946-1971, Sandia was the primary nuclear weapons installation in North America. Montague, a veteran and expert on nuclear weapons and missile guidance systems, spent his latter years overseeing the most cutting-edge technology that the United States military had to deploy.
Rear Admiral Sidney Souers, USN (1892-1973)—Assistant, and later Deputy Chief of the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) during WWII, Souers became the first Director of Central Intelligence when President Truman appointed him to the position in 1946. Adm. Souers, like Adm. Hillenkoetter, were both Navy men who played a critical role in the development of US Intelligence. A long-time advocate of UK plans to centralize US Intelligence, Souers helped Truman push through bureaucratic and territorial deadlocks in order to make the CIA a reality.
General Nathan Twining, USAAC/USAF/USN (1897-1982)—This West Point alumnus not only served in the Army and its nascent Army Air Force, but in the US Navy as well. A career soldier and commander, he orchestrated victorious air missions in the European theatre of WWII. After Germany’s surrender, Truman ordered him to serve in the Pacific in order to secure victory over Japan. On his watch, two bombers reduced the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to ashes and charred flesh. In 1953, he succeeded Hoyt Vandenberg as Air Force Chief of Staff.Part of Twining’s involvement with UFOs is fairly well documented. As head of Air Materiel Command, he recommended the first official UFO study, Project SIGN. His precise actions during the Roswell incident of 1947 remain a subject of debate. Nevertheless, his now-famous letter (often referred to as the “Twining Memo”) written to Brig. General George Schulgen, then-Commanding General of the Army Air Force leaves little doubt that this was a topic that came up within the purview of his office.
General Hoyt Vandenberg, USAAC/USAF (1899-1955)—A graduate of the Army War College, and the nephew of a US Senator, Vandenberg served as Chief of Military Intelligence during WWII. He succeeded Rear Adm. Sidney Souers as DCI in 1946, and from then to 1947 served as Director of the Central Intelligence Group. In 1948, Truman appointed him Air Force Chief of Staff, in which capacity he served until succeeded by General Twining. A career insider, some of his papers are still classified.Vandenberg’s name comes up a lot in histories of ufology, especially in his memos on the subject in addition to the oversight, along with Twining, of Projects SIGN and BLUE BOOK. In a 2000 interview conducted by ufologist Brian Parks, former Assistant Secretary of the Air Force Harold Stuart (1949-1951) said that he often worked closely with Vandenberg, and seemingly affirmed both Vandenberg’s interest on the subject and the existence of MJ-12. His exact words: “I was not on the MJ-!2 Project Advisory Board and only have a faint recollection of the group.”
_________________
* I’m uncertain about Hunsaker’s status at MIT. Some sources list him as a Lecturer, others as an Assistant Professor.
To read earlier posts in this series, click here.



24 Comments:
At 10:59 AM,
boneman said…
I must be missing something.
From my perspective, the ones that want to get into space are the ones that are ready to take what they want.
If this sounds political, then, what can i say?
Our exploration of Mars, for example, is going to end up one big fiasco. Or a killing spree.
We go, we dig, we find microscopic life forms that don't have any right to the planet they are on, we destroy that life form.
What kind of sense is that?
And, is it tha peaceful animal life on our planet that ebdevors to do this?
No.
The peaceful life forms on this planet are slowly but surely learning that we indeed, do eat animals that are smarter than us.
We, on the other hand, agressors to the max! Killers! Destroyers of anything that doesn't serve us, feed us or make us sexually happy.
And that's still no garantee we won't kill it, later.
For example, how many mermaids are left?
Yeah....see?
So, when a 'visitor' gets here from another planet far far away...what do you think it's going to do?
Teach us?
Or test various sauce flavors on us?
At 1:19 PM,
Aggie said…
They all seem to be of Military background this group ... I would be suspiscious that real truth wouldn't come out in the long run as they make a point of spin doctoring.
There is no point in us finding life on another planet. We can't get our actions on this one right, we are not going to do any better elsewhere. It is the main reason I think space exploration is a collossal waste of $.
Other life outside (hopefully of higher intelligence) wouldn't touch this planet/humans with a 10 foot barge pole. They'll smply wait for us to destroy ourselves.
At 3:35 PM,
foam said…
i know mj 12 is considered a hoax or forgery by some people and groups but if the memory of harold stuart is correct it would appear that such a group did exist. did it exist just under that particular name? or is it possible that other names were used to describe this group.
At 3:52 PM,
Devin said…
Fascinating food for thought as always Xdell! I second many thoughts on comments here -like Aggie said the vast majority seem to have links (or all of them) to the MIC-Forrestal's death has always intrigued me! best to you as always!!
At 7:57 PM,
Candy Minx said…
Majestic 12? I do not know where you hear of these cabals...but it is always exciting and mysterious to drop in here. did you read this months Vanity Fair about the "Bohemian Club"?
p.s. I posted one of my 16mm films on my blog today...it's a quirky comedy and you might enjoy some of it...?
Great to "see" you!
At 1:55 AM,
Helene (the Artist Formerly Known as Kate) said…
General Nathan Twining was my uncle...
Interesting, Aggies thought about the line up of men being mostly military... I agree that its tainted that way!
Bonemans thought about space exploration being one big fiasco is interesting as well... and globally we are all broke, so perhaps by the time we have the money to really explore and do something about finding life on another planet (which I believe we will) we will have a better grasp on the whole 'global' deal and not just individual countries fighting for recognition for the discovery... I read an artical last week by a Brit about NYC. He was saying that NYers think everything is bigger and better in NY... that its a great city, but unlike the European cities is so young it hasnt had time to 'get over itself'. I think our world is a bit like that now. Hopefully its changing with things like globally green efforts, UN and G20... but we have a long way to go!
How is DC treating you? Cherry blossoms in their peak yet? I love DC this time of the year! Oh and only kidding about the General being my relative! =]
At 6:18 AM,
Middle Ditch said…
A load of hotshots then. Pity the aliens
At 7:36 AM,
X. Dell said…
Boneman, this very issue arose with the launch of the Cassini-Huygens probe in 1997. Cassini required nuclear-powered systems because of the suspected ineffectiveness of solar power at great distances from the sun. In order to get up to speed, it had to slingshot back across Earth's orbit. Any malfunction could have dispersed nuclear materials over an area wide enough to kill hundreds of thousands of people on Earth, according to many, among them theoretical physicist Michio Kaku. That would have been a remote possibility, of course. But it's not like NASA hasn't made mistakes in the past, or won't make them in the future. It was enough of a risk that public pressure forced NASA to change its trajectory to allow a greater margin of error.
The ecological problems continued, however, when some scientists pointed out there could be a good possibility of life on some of the moons and bodies that Cassini would examine. Were it to malfunction there, it could have sterilized an entire ecosystem--the very scenario that you, the artist, have painted.
Aggie, I would think that even if much further advanced than ourselves, an alien species would find us interesting, for the same reason we would find microbial life on Mars interesting. And there is evidence of a possible alien probe that is not secret at all, a mysteious item colloquially called "The Black Knight" satellite which visits the planet every few years, does a few polar orbits, and then leaves. NASA tracks this, and makes information about its appearances available to the public. Note, this is quite a different scenario than putative alien visitation, and is handled quite differently by the US government.
As for looking for alien life, it's too late to worry about that, since we've already begun that quest with our Martian and other solar systems probes, as well as with CETI.
From what I see of the panel, I count six military intelligence people, five academics, and an attorney. True, they might all be deemed to have some military connections, but that wasn't that unusual for the period of time we're talking about. Most American men who were of age between WWII and Vietnam had some military connection. I wouldn't see that as compellingly suspicious.
Foam, there were a number of official studies, and a lot of government sponsored research on UFOs: Project SIGN, Project GRUDGE, Project BLUEBOOK, the H.P. Robertson Panel, the Condon Committee--not to mention the 238 papers authored by the NSA. So it would stand to reason that whatever this phenomenon was, there would be some kind of executive oversight of the investigative process, whether it was called MJ-12 or something else.
The problem here is really in the details. Even if the UFOs were nothing more than thermal inversions or other misidentified natural phenomena, we have to wonder why the government failed to disclose what experts might have helped us determined that. After all, citation is part and parcel of scholarship. We have to know who says what, even if we don't bother to ask the question of why they said it in the first place.
Devin, see my response to Aggie. As to Forrestal's death, I'm not going to speculate on that in this particular series because there's enough to do here. Despite it's suspicious nature, the thing that's really important is the timing, as it coincides with the timing of massive UFO activity over the US. This is primarily what draws him into the story--that and his post as Defense Secretary.
As a matter of fact, it would probably be helpful to note the death years of all of the people listed (that's why I included life dates).
Candy Minx, thanks for stopping by, for the heads up on the Bohemian Grove article, and for the news of your video. I'll be visiting your page straightaway.
Kate, the cherry blossoms are indeed here, and they're wreaking havoc on my allergies. I think I could happily live the rest of my life without seeing another one, although they are beautiful to look at.
It's interesting that you have subscribed to one of the more beneficent arguments of globalism. Don't get me wrong. I believe that some form of globalization is inevitable, barring major catastrophe--a modern day Tower of Babel that forces us to all break off from each other. The question is the shape that it will take. Right now, I don't see the usurpation of national sovereignties as the best solution. Nor do I see the militarization of hot spots as a decent policy. The type of globalization that will be peaceful will acknowledge the needs of all, one part of that being the need of identity and self-determination/self-actualization (here taken more in the collective sense of self, as in "our identity").
I also find it interesting that yu would joke about a possible relationship to Gen. Twining. I guess I don't quite get that, although I found it difficult to believe upon first reading, given what I understood about the lives of both of you.
Lol, Monique, you've really put this in an underrepresented perspective. There are such people as Dr. Richard Boylan who would agree with you.
At 8:49 AM,
Charles Gramlich said…
Whoa, I'd never seen the credentials on these folks before. Interesting.
At 11:12 AM,
dr.alistair said…
there are those who though that the probe was designed to re-ignite neptune and bring about an armageddon of some sort to to fulfill some fundementalist prophesy.
calm has been restored now that we have a more secular prez.....
At 11:16 AM,
dr.alistair said…
and regarding mj-12, it has struck me occasionally that what we have here is a form of belief control from a bureaucratic perspective.
people are going to believe in ufos and aliens whether they are real or not, so let`s put together a board of governers.
another organised religion as it were.
At 8:46 PM,
X. Dell said…
Charles, what's kinda interesting to me is that most of these people were rather obscure. That, and that people like Adm. Hillenkoetter urgently insisted on bringing UFO activity in front of Congress.
Dr. Alistair, the calm was actually restored in 1997, with respect to the Cassini probe. But if you're talking about the current day, there has been considerable speculation on the Net as to what Obama's policy would/will be on UFOs. Some sources say that he has more interest than W., but not as great an interest as Clinton. But that's all speculation.
Actually, your perspective of the purported role of such a panel makes sense. If you needed, say, some sort of control measure if for whatever reason we started seeing War of the Worlds, then a group like that can say, "We've studied the problem, and we know how to deal with it, blah, blah, blah."
At 9:13 PM,
Libby said…
x, this stuff is interesting...i don't have anything to add to the discussion, so i'll just read (think of me as a ghost...)
At 4:41 AM,
dr.alistair said…
governments and religions tell us, much like mum and dad, what we are experiencing and how and why.
a board of military and science types could tell us what we are and aren`t experiencing regarding lights in the sky and intergalactic proctologists as well.
a sort of pre-hypnotic suggestion for the next time the wet-work boys are out in the woods and need a story for when one of thier playmates wakes up early.
At 7:57 PM,
X. Dell said…
Libby, you could add what you think about the whole MJ-12 thing, since you are versed in ufology.
Alistair, I get where you're coming from. Certainly the parental attitude permeates the "for your own good/national defense" argument.
At 11:46 PM,
iSJ said…
"I don't see the usurpation of national sovereignities as the best solution"
Why not?
Considering that's what the EU is about and they really do seem to have moved from bombing each other to having weird trade disputes doesn't seem to be a bad thing.
I do wish we get to explore space. It's about time I got my own planet.
At 8:37 AM,
Libby said…
lol @ sj! the citizens of the planet could be known as "sridharians"!
At 10:06 PM,
SJ said…
Libby I will be the only resident of my planet so no need for a name. Others can visit but no one gets to stay :)
At 7:22 AM,
X. Dell said…
I don't want to go to your planet, SJ. Too many atomic chickens.
Speaking seriously, I do have to say that sovereignty isn't sacrosanct. The conditions under which globalization might occur could make all the difference. My concern is that our current and past strategies (e.g. NAFTA, FTA, etc). will have grave consequences. The EU is a work in progress. We'd have to see if that works out for them in the long run.
At 7:30 AM,
Helene (the Artist Formerly Known as Kate) said…
I joked about it to make you wonder a bit... no other reason. I thought it was funny at the time! lol
As for the Globalization, I am sure there will be many growing pains through that process and I doubt it will be within my lifetime... but I do think its coming in some form.
Ah the alergy thing... didnt really think of that! My allergies hit in the fall.
Hope you are having a good weekend!
At 7:35 AM,
Helene (the Artist Formerly Known as Kate) said…
Oh and I have found many articles about the Romans using urine as cleaning agents... even a bbc article. Why dont you think its true?
At 7:08 AM,
benjibopper said…
I see white men.
At 11:36 PM,
Ricardo said…
A computer expert from the 20s? WOW! It's hard to believe tat there was anything remotely like that back then. This seems to be a list of some very smart and slick guys.
At 8:14 PM,
X. Dell said…
Helene, sorry to hear about the allergies. I got 'em too. As for the Twining thing, I asked if you were serious beause, let's face it, that would be too coincidental.
BTW, Helene (I keep typing Kate and deleting it--old habits die hard, I guess), I said that Romans used urine to whiten stuff. I just said that they used it to whiten things other than clothes.
Benjibopper, they are a rather homogenous bunch, huh?
Ricardo, you got it. These are the slickest of the slick, and the smartest of the smart. Whoever perpetrated this either really knew, or really did his homework.
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